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Ronan's avatar

Two points:

1 - I don't see that this follows; 'it’s obviously not true that if the US stopped delivering weapons to Israel it would still not agree to a ceasefire.' Lots of conflicts continue even after weapon stocks run down, just they revert to lower level responses(paramilitary death squads rather than guided missile attacks etc). In Israel it could lead to an even more brutal crackdown if the conflict then became perceived as existential (ie US provided weapons systems stop protecting from missile attacks etc) You can slaughter people with machetes and AK47s. A weaker Israel is not necessarily a more compassionate one.

2 - you assume the conclusion that supporting Israel is not in US interests. I agree in the case of Hezbollah and Hamas they are not directly US interests. Deterring and weakening Iran is though. And leaving aside the Israel lobby influence (which I don't disagree with you about in broad strokes) supporting an ally is not just about the specific event but more broadly showing a commitment to them when they need it. So imo even if the Israel lobby(as a set of institutions and influential people with policy maker access and political influence)disappeared tomorrow, it's not obvious Biden would use that leverage to the extent that he would need to.

But the broader issue here is that you don't seem to think supporting Israel is in US interests in general, which I don't think is at all clear. US policy in the region has historically been about protecting oil supplies, dealing with terrorism/security challenges, more recently keeping Iran down. The US (as you know) has often tried to do this by developing alliances with strong regional actors. Israel is clearly a militarily very strong regional power, whose interests are aligned with the US on protecting oil supplies, dealing with terrorism/security challenges, keeping Iran down.

The counter argument is the costs are greater than Israel's benefit on these issues. But how is that true? The extent to which the Israel/Palestine conflict influences international Jihadis is trivial. The diplomatic blowback also doesn't really seem a extensive as implied (lots of the important Arab states are still sympathetic to the US at the elite level) I just don't see where these costs, outside of the direct financial ones, are that would make Israel a burden on the US.

To be clear, this isn't a defence of the Israelis, who frankly I think have reverted to inexcusable levels of brutality. But that is the only argument that works here, the moral case against them, as at a purely self interested pov, it really doesn't matter much to the US if they slaughter half of Gaza and reduce Beirut to ruins.

Jim Williamson's avatar

How can Israel “accept a ceasefire and end the war” when Hamas refuses to do so? If only one side ceases fire, the war doesn’t end.

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